These are some newsgroup posts by a guy who calls himself Thorney (me).
They are here so that I can easily refer people to them.
It saves having to repost them.
Given the nature of the material, I don't tell here which newsgroups.
Presumably adults interested know how to use the usual search engines to find them.
This material is intended to be non-pornographic but adult in nature.
If you are not an adult or tend to get offended, please go away.

You can email me at thorney1y@yahoo.com

1.  A Story you are not going to hear
2.  A Mathematics Lesson
3.  Remarks on the nature of reality
4.  Not Quite a Scene Report
5. An activity list for beginners (who know each other well)
6. Some biographical data (rather explicit)

Go to another page,  with more about Mrs. Thorney's approaches.

1.  A Story you are not going to hear

        The following is not really an explanation of my newsgroup participation. It is a copy of an e-mail I sent to the minister of a church where we are active members, who I like to tease.  (Note that Mrs. Thorney and I are in fact deeply religious, albeit not quite in the normal fashion. We are generally fairly traditional Jews Thursday through Saturday and liberal Presbyterians  Sunday through Wednesday, except in the summer when we are Baptists.
<begin e-mail>
On the very improbable chance that you ever want to tell or forward this, you may do so anonymously. But probably not at our church. The results of a morning of storytelling and talking of storytelling technique followed by a discussion of the role of homosexuals and other sexual (variations?) in the church. The story is primarily fiction, and any claims to be explicit should be considered dubious at best.

A story you are not going to hear.

      Writing a story, I am told, requires a great deal of revision. You must understand your chosen audience, consider their vocabulary and interests, find a proper beginning or ‘hook', and a proper conclusion, and, at every stage, revise, revise, revise.
        My wife and I have recently been attending a Sunday School class on ‘Writing Stories of Faith'. With some of the other ‘senior citizens' of the church. It has been a wonderful class, and I suspect it has improved my story-telling skill immensely. But I'm afraid that I enjoy off-color stories as well as ordinary ones, and that sometimes I find stories about faith even among those stories that our minister would not like to have me telling in the church narthex.
      My wife and I are unusually close and share a great many interests, some of which are not entirely common among liberal Protestants. Since this Sunday school class is less theological than some we have enjoyed, we have been doing some of our theological work at home, and one Sunday afternoon we were having a particularly interesting discussion of some of the passages in the Nicene Creed. We were enjoying the discussion immensely, but my mind sometimes wandered, as a man's mind sometimes will on a pleasant Sunday afternoon, to other subjects. And over time I found a story growing in my mind, a heartwarming story of man and wife and the Nicene Creed, and faith, and love. Especially love. Maybe a little too much love to be exactly appropriate for that Sunday School class on stories of faith.
       Well, my story-telling friends tell me, don't give up too easily on a story idea. Find an appropriate audience. And cast your story for that audience. Let's see, if not the church, where? I'm not sure which of my friends I could tell this one to. Oh, yes, the internet.. Surely some newsgroup on the internet would like a heartwarming story of the Nicene Creed, and faith, and love. Especially love. Maybe with a little pitch for going to church next Sunday thrown in?
      So I dusted off my trusty search engine, figured out the right key words, and looked for a newsgroup. THAT ONE? Oh, my. Well, -they- most certainly do need a story of faith, and love, and reminding that they would be welcome in church next Sunday. But the story will need a little recasting, if I want to make it catch THEIR interest. I think I can do it. A storyteller is supposed to understand his audience, right? And it isn't that bad, is it? I mean, there are worse ones, aren't there? (Quick check). Oh, yes. definitely. VERY sorry I asked. Hasty retreat to that one that startled me enough, already, the first time.
        So I revised. What is the vocabulary of my intended audience? And I revised. What is my audience interested in? And I revised again. Ah, progress. A rough draft. A heartwarming and explicit story of love, and faith, and unbridled lust, and the Nicene Creed. Now what's next? Wait a minute. Before you try the story on a group, try it on an individual. See how they react. Who can I tell it to?
        Luckily my relationship with my wife is -very- good, and she is after all a star of the story, even if the names and a few of the facts have been changed. Still, I had my heart in my throat as prepared to show her the draft and explain the changes in names and the system of posting anonymously to newsgroups.
      She was on the phone. Grandchildren numbers seven and eight. (There are a few younger ones, but they aren't up to this long a phone conversation yet.) Wait for her to get off. I feel increasing tension – does she know about this part of my imagination? How will she react?
      As she read the story, her face fell. Halfway through, she went back to the top and looked quite bewildered she read it through again. She got two-thirds of the way through this time, stopped, stared at me, and tried again from the beginning. The third time she got all the way through, looked at me, and opened her mouth to speak. And closed it again. Back for a fourth reading.
     "Well", I said finally, "what do you think? It is fiction, after all. Does it represent you too badly?" "I have a problem with it," she said. A long pause. She spoke again. "Would it be OK if I insisted on one change?" "Only one?" I said. "What is it?"
      "Well," she said, "if you want these people to go to church, shouldn't you make it clear that some of us are comfortable in church even if we don't believe ALL of the Nicene Creed?"
So I had to go back and revise again.

P.S. No, you don't get to hear the story.
<end of e-mail>
For the posting on which this was very loosely based, click here.
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2.  Subject: Mathematics Lesson

<from a newsgroup post>
In the 'Endorphin High' thread...
> Mr. Bacchus (dreaming of a woman who will lecture me on astrophysics
> while forcing me to keep up with her on a mountain bike.. <snip>
I replied
>we DO do physics. And mathematics....
> My wife does have some _very_ nice inflection points.]
In another thread, xyzxyz9192 wrote:
> I'm preparing to have my first BDSM experience with my girlfriend who's
> also new to this....she's wanting to be objectified...
For lack of a straight man or better way to connect these threads, I asked
> what's an inflection point?
- - - - -
Glad you asked.
Welcome to The First Official SS.BB. Mathematics Lesson
Instructions to Experimenter:
Preparations: Arrange consenting subject horizontally on flat surface
at a convenient height. Preferably naked. Either side up, or may be
repeated for both. Immobilization techniques optional.
Lesson One: First derivatives.
Run test instrument (hand, tongue, nipple, other anatomical part
or other device of experimenter's choice) carefully over exposed surface
of subject. As test instrument (hereafter ‘hand' for brevity) travels
along the surface, observe if the hand is rising or falling. If it is
rising, the -slope- (first derivative) of the curve is positive; if it
is falling, the slope is negative. If the hand is at a local high point
(changing from rising to falling) this is a -local maximum-; if changing
from falling to rising, it is at a -local minimum-. In both cases, the
derivative (slope) is zero and the point is called an -extremum-.
Homework: (1) Find all local extrema of the subject. Observe
reactions to pats, pinches, or other experimental procedures. (2)
Determine possible methods of decorating said extrema. (3) Study for
other possible uses (e.g. serving dish for chocolate sauce.)
Lesson Two: Second derivatives.
Where the slope is increasing (the direction of the moving hand is
changing to be more upward) the derivative is -increasing-; the curve is
called -concave- and the second derivative is positive.. Where the slope
is decreasing, the curve is called -convex- and the second derivative
is negative. The second derivative is zero at points where the curve
shifts from being concave to convex; such a place is called an
-inflection point-. Examples are found aa couple of inches below the
nipple, where the breast starts to flatten, and in that nice crease at
the bottom of the buttocks where it turns out toward the upper leg.
Homework. (1) Carefully examine the subject to find as many
inflection points as possible. Test for sensitivity. (2) Compare and
contrast sensitivity of inflection points to sensitivity of local
extrema.
Lesson three. Partial Derivatives.
(We're in third semester calculus now, guys).
So far we've considered moving the hand in just one direction. Now
we get to use both hands. You may find a point (e.g. between the
breasts, or in the vicinity of the buttocks) where if you move a hand
side-to-side you find a local minimum, but if you move the hand
top-to-bottom you find a local maximum. (Some subjects may need to arch
their back for this.) A point such as this is called a -saddle point-.
Homework: (1) Identify as many saddle points on the subject as
possible. (2) think of uses for as many of them as possible, or assign
the subject to write a brief essay on their uses. Grade essay, giving
appropriate feedback to subject.

Permission is granted to instructors of mathematics or other
subjects to use this lesson plan without specific acknowledgment.
Similar instruction plans, or reports of use of same, may be posted to
this newsgroup.
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3. Remarks on Reality
(the thread started because a primary school was arrested for threatening his teacher after
he wrote a 'scary story'. Most in the newsgroup felt that his essay was in fact a perfectly
reasonable response to the teacher's assignment, that there was no reason to assume
threats were intended,  and that it was the teacher and other adults in the case who were
confusing fantasy and reality.

Subject: Re: Does the Gov. threaten the BSDM culture on the internet?

Johnslve wrote:
> No, but then, we are adults who hopefully grew up with more
> of a grip on  reality than kids today are.
< lots of good stuff in this and in the many answers to it...>
Re: A grip on reality.
Here is a long essay, some responsive to the thread, some
philosophical, too much autobiographical. I hope a little is fun.
I've tried to avoid this thread. But your discussion has gotten so
fascinating and valuable I can't resist jumping in.
      I'm delighted with the sub-discussion that has emerged: how kids
come to grips with reality and with the norms of society.
-------------
      It is not clear to me that society has a grasp of reality. I'm not
even sure that reality has a grasp of reality. I know that my image of
reality is very different than that of other people and it became so
very early in my life.
     I suggest that people need to form both an image of the world and an
image of themselves. And they need to have some understanding of how
enough other people see the world that they can find a way to translate.
When they succeed, they can function in society (stay out of jail,
obtain food and shelter, even obtain love.) Doing all this takes quite a
few years; few people have completed it by 20. No one can be expected to
do it by 10 or 13.
      Learning to translate is much easier when there is a dominant
language to translate to, or, to put it another way, when enough members
of society share a common image and vocabulary. I'm afraid that this is
becoming less and less true. The experience of the Vietnam War was
formative for one generation, showing it that the-powers-that-be had a
very poor grasp of actual political and military reality. The breakdown
of the common religious vocabulary of American society has contributed
even more. I agree in many ways that standard mid-American Protestantism
shouldn't be forced on all elementary school children as it was in my
day; but to lose the common vocabulary of the Bible, the ten
Commandments, and the moral stories, may be a disaster. Poe and Dickens
(and Watergate and Whitewater) are not adequate substitutes.
I meet more and more people who cannot (like some of  another writer's
kids' friends) manage yet to translate society's rules into a form they
can live with. Luckily, many do learn. Handholding helps. I also meet
many who can cope, many very good people. I try to organize my life to
give me more contact with those who can, and I try to steer my kids and
10+ grandchildren to where they can meet people like that too. And I
try to teach my own brood to form and preserve and rely on their own
vision, not on the common one.
-----
A foreshadowing: my mother always told me that you could usually get
away with the truth, if you made it sound implausible enough. And there
were times when the truth is not welcome, or is best left unstated. And
sometimes when society asks a question, it does not want to hear the
answer.
------
For those who have seen Kaufman and Hart's play, 'You Can't Take It
With You' -- that's just about the family I grew up in. For those who
haven't seen it, maybe a few bits will suffice. I was first questioned
by the FBI as a presumed conspirator against the President when I was 8
or 9 (in those days, violence was not assumed and it did me no harm then
or later). My mother was the sort who would come home from the office
to discuss her progress in bribing the Pope. My father's phone was
tapped by the FBI, and a friend in the FBI sent him typed transcripts of
his own conversations. I'm the only person I know who ever had their
baptism -revoked- by a mainline church. When you live in a fine, good,
successful, upstanding family where things like this happen, you learn
early on that this is not the same world the newspapers are reporting
on.
       I learned not to say certain things, even when asked. I learned that
sometimes you could tell the truth, and not be believed. And that maybe
sometimes it was better if you were not believed. And I formed a world
view that let me have a very successful career and very great career
satisfaction, althought the things I get satisfaction from are often not
the things mentioned in my annual performance review. (It isn't all
roses. Once I tried too hard to be normal, and a nasty divorce
resulted).
--------------
      What do I mean by, the need to translate world views? Let us give a
patently absurd example. Suppose one's parents did sex education by
using as texts erotic passages from the Bible and other religious
documents. Suppose one managed to become a Comparative-Religion and
Church-History fetishist. If one then wanted to talk about sex -- let us
say, for the purpose of expressing to others one's appreciation of God
for having found one a spouse who could adjust to or even enjoy such a
fetish -- one would not necessarily easily find a group of people
sharing that fetish. One might, speaking hypothetically, need to learn
the vocabulary of some other group that was sufficiently open-minded
that if you used enough of their language, they'd let you use some of
your own. You can get along, sometimes, if you know how to use the right
words.
--------------
       Does all this have anything to do with the essay that is at the root
of this thread? I guess if I were the teacher I'd have had to give two
grades - a low one for spelling and grammar, and a high one for
creativity. Very few young people can write down their images or dreams
or nightmares and convey such a realistic sense of what it was like to
imagine it or dream it or suffer the nightmare. It is a shame that the
kid was probably scared blue by the results. It is a shame that the
teacher, a counselor, most of all the parents, weren't there to
understand, to be aware of the kid's perception of reality, to
understand the kid's headspace. (I've seen plenty of younger kids with
bloodthirsty imaginations, and modern society no doubt aggravates this.
My friends and I ceremonially burned a small effigy of the school
principal, after the last day of school one spring, at about that age.)
And in this day and age, more than in mine, I wish the kids parents
had told him: Just because the teacher asks the question, doesn't mean
she wants the answer. Some things are better unsaid. And if you must
tell the truth, do be sure to make it sound very implausible.
       Thorney
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4. Subject: Not Quite a Scene Report

(this is intended primarily as humor. but parts probably deserve an
adults-only label. If you aren't an adult or don't want to read possibly
offensive stuff, don't read it.)
(very slightly expurgated from the original version)
From: Thorney
Organization: Lurkers
Preface.
I'm delighted with how this group has helped me to understand and
increase my enjoyment of my own kinks (here = nonvanilla preferences)
and put them in a context, and your remarkable ability for tolerating
nonstandard kinks. I started to write this as 'what makes you feel
sexy' and that didn't work, my efforts at writing either scene reports
or pornography (stories?) sound a bit juvenile to me, and my sense of
humor is a bit too weird to work well on this planet, so I'm not sure
what genre this is, but here goes...
Introduction
At the suggestion of several in the group, helping me try to fit
what-it-is-that-I-do into the vocabulary and headspace of
what-it-is-that-we-do, I've been reading some of the books you recommend.
Many parts would squick my wife very badly, and some others didn't make
much erotic sense to me on first reading. I mean, why would anyone get off on
requiring a slave to take foreign language lessons? And then my wife /
toy and I went to a rather wonderful church supper (Episcopal this time,
two excellent speeches by a pair of bishops...) and I fell into a most
remarkable sexual-high reverie, that has gone on for days, remembering a
scene some time ago, before I delurked...
Scene 1.
During a nice dinner, my wife excitedly reported on the progress
she'd made on the assignment I'd given her to work on during the day.
Nothing as sexy as the evening a few days earlier when dessert was
chocolate sauce on her nipples, but very pleasant and with a real
undercurrent of excitement as we looked forward to the evening ahead.
After dinner I settled into my easy chair watching her striptease (she
does a wonderful job of bending over to emphasize that delightful curve
of her bottom) and then she happily scampered around gathering the
things I had asked her to collect for me. She piled them in easy reach,
approached me, and knelt down between my knees, becoming once again
my indescribably delicious naked sex toy, fully attentive, fully
cooperative, and fully prepared to discuss the political and religious
trends leading to the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D. where...
[Curtain crashes down to sound of thunderous protests]
Entre'act
Entire Chorus: 'Come off it, Thorney, we knew you had a sick mind...'
'That isn't even a plausible fantasy....'
'So what did really happen, anyway?....'
Author, cowering: 'Well, it's almost exactly true... I did take a
little literary license for readability ... I was seated on the side of
the bed, not my easy chair, so we could both sprawl out and easily touch
each other and still reach all the stuff we wanted...
Chorus: 'That's not what we meant, Thorney...'
Author: 'and actually it wasn't the Council of Nicaea, I figured
that was something people had heard of, we were really discussing the
motivations behind the amendments to the Nicene Creed adopted at the
Council of Constantinople in 381 A.D....
[Author retreats under hail of tomatoes and other objects...]
Scene 2
After an hour or two of discussion and foreplay, we actually decided
we had figured out the intellectual points at issue, and my fingers had
gotten too wet and sticky to turn the pages, so my still-naked slavegirl
gave me another nice chance to admire and pat and squeeze various parts
of her anatomy as she gathered up the books to lay them to one side (she
does -such- a nice job of bending over...) and we were so excited I
couldn't wait through anything like the kind of preliminary  attention she
offered, I was on her and we had the best time together that
we'd had in weeks. And while neither of us is into pain or
marks I did actually wind up with a bruise on my back this time, because
we were trying to change positions without my pulling out and I lost my
balance and flopped over too hard and stabbed my back with the -very-
sharp corner of an extremely heavy multi-language Bible that she had
overlooked and was tangled in the sheets...
[Curtain falls as angry mob runs author out of newsgroup on a
rail...]
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5. Subject: Beginner's BDSM activity list

(Definitely adults-only stuff)
From: Thorney <edited somewhat from original post>
Some e-mail discussions and remarks in other threads suggest to me
...While there are nice checklists (for partner interest / limit
setting) for relatively advanced bdsm, they mainly aren't something my
wife is comfortable with. And we get periodic requests from new people
for introductory activities. I wonder if others would join me in
contributing ideas for a ‘love bdsm lite' activity list? If we gather
enough good ideas, maybe someone would even compile it into a list and
put it on their web site where we can point it out to future enquirers.
My own prejudices / preferences will show in my own suggestions (I'm not
going to work hard to make it sex-neutral, for example) but others
should feel free to reflect their own preferences / situation instead of
mine.
      I stress my context: We are a long-term, older, happily married couple with
a great deal of trust, just experimenting with new activities and trying to
find ones we both enjoy and that don't bother our limits / hot buttons / etc.
And we are doing this for us two, without reference to groups, conventions
of the 'community' (broader or kinkier).  Still, some the things we've thought of
or tried may be of help or interest to others

BDSM ‘Lite' activites new people / new partners might want to try.

1. Wearing a token (collar / bracelet / ring etc. during a session, to
lead up to a session, or more generally.
2. Kneeling and kissing feet or genitals to start a session.
3. Serving dinner topless / bottomless / naked / in costume.
4. Serving entire meal on top's plate, top may feed (kneeling?)
bottom or occasionally place food on bottom's plate.
5. Bottom to dust top's collection of (...) while wearing
baby doll nighty or other costume.
6. Bottom serves as coffee table / foot rest while top
watches TV / reads poetry / etc.
7. Bottom does exercises / stretches. Top supervises with
pats / pinches / gestures with cane / etc.
8. Bottom required to stand in corner / stand on mini trampoline
while top reads / examines / photographs.
9. Bottom required to use title or reply ‘Yes, Master' to
requests / commands / questions.
10. Stop during sex to require bottom to answer questions or
plead for more (‘say: Please fuck me harder, Master.')
11. Confiscate bottom's panties at start of session or another time.
12. Make bottom hold up skirts / drop slacks for spanking.
13. Frequently check bottom's genitals for stiffness / wetness.
14. Go shopping together for sexy lingerie ( Clerks in a sexy lingerie
store may be more responsive than in a more conventional store).
Hold up garments in front of bottom. Inquire if there is something
smaller / more see-through / etc.  (Note: we've enjoyed doing this
but the newsgroup was squeamish about involvin others involuntarily)
15. Require bottom to request permission to wear undies. Demand
kiss on feet / genitals / etc. before granting permission.
16. When out at movie (etc.) require bottom to go to bathroom,
remove panties, bring them back to top.
17. Spanking, requiring the bottom to rank each spank 1 to 9
(1 = too soft, 9 = too hard, 5 = just right).
18. How loud a noise can you make spanking without it hurting
too much? (Try water or oil on the surfaces...)
19. Require bottom to assume a position as if tied, without actually tying.
20. Bottom to kneel under table and suck off top, after meal.
21. Spread chocolate or honey or selected places and lick it off.
22. Shower or bathe together, sub to carefully wash and dry top as directed.
23. Bottom to squeeze breasts together as top rubs cock between them.
24. Bottom's behavior can be rewarded / punished in various ways
(I use a spanking for punishment, applause administered to the
bottom for reward. I suspect they feel the same except for language.
One could have sex in top's / bottom's favorite position, if they differ.)
25. Spread bottom on bed (tied or not) and 'whip' with silk scarf or other
thing that caresses more than punishes. Or massage with coarse towel.
Or kiss (tickle?) and touch all over, with hands, lips, cock,...
26. Top reclines and bottom massages / strokes top with breasts, hair, lips, etc.
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6. Some biographical data (rather explicit)

Subject: Re: Question for the group... how often?
From: Thorney

The person starting the thread  wrote:

> 1)   How often do you have sex?
> 2)   How often does it involve a scene or bdsm play?
> 3)   How long have you been in this particular relationship?
>
Since I've had affirmative responses in the group and by e-mail for
offering (explicit) details, here goes.
    I'm in my late 50's, Mrs. Thorney over 75 (one of my concessions to
anonymity is to round to about 5 years).  I had a nasty divorce about 25
years ago, she a more amicable one about 30 years ago (numerous
children). A few years after my divorce I went to teach at a different
school and she noticed me and set out to catch me (she says), contriving
to sit next to me at faculty meetings, be valuable professionally, etc.
I see no reason to disbelieve her reports but from my point of view I
simple fell in lust, then love, with an exceptionally helpful older
colleague. We married about 20 years ago.  I think it fair to say that
we have each trained the other to be exactly what we want in a spouse /
lover / partner, and are both extremely happy with the arrangement.
     She asserts that satisfying me is very easy, she just tries a lot
of things and watches and remembers what works. I describe the process
as seducing her into behavior I enjoy, by making suggestions and
rewarding / praising things I like. On the other hand, while playing
Top, I insist that she is not allowed to keep secrets from me about what
turns her on, what she wants, what is working. Since one of my great
pleasures is driving her into ecstasy, I figure I'm entitled to require
that she help.
     You asked about frequency of sex and frequency of wiitwd.
     As of fifteen years ago (notes from the psychological interviews
associated with a child visitation lawsuit) we typically had intercourse
10 to 14 times a week. Now it is typically 5 to 7, weighted toward the
7. As she got older, her tissues got a little more prone to injury or
infection and we eventually settled on once a day, but learning to
stretch that one session out longer.  She maintains my interest for as
long as she wants by knowing my hot spots, mental and physical -- I
don't fully understand the left-over adolescent in me that responds so
well to a plea of "Please fuck me harder, Master!", but that is no
reason not to enjoy it. Nor do I fully understand the manipulations she
does that bring me off when she is ready (or I request it) but it works
spectacularly well.
      Most of our sessions involve at least that sort of role-play; the
rare exceptions would be if there is grandchild in easy earshot or
during the very rare family crises (e.g. death or divorce in family)
when straight tenderness is indicated.
      During the rest of the day, we 'play' with great frequency. Some
of this is ritual stuff, observed rather flexibly. I choose what panties
she is going to wear and confiscate them occasionally. If we are home
alone, she'll hoist her skirt so I can watch her bottom as she walks
upstairs.  She denies being at all submissive or having any interest in
being kinky, she just says she is the world's greatest expert at keeping
me happy (she is) and that I do the same for her. I frequently follow
her into the bathroom so that she can lick my penis while she pees; I've
asked her if that is 'kinky' and she says, 'no, we are just doing
something we both enjoy.' Lately I've been  asking her to kneel down
naked and kiss my feet; she says she is willing to do that "only when
she wants to" but so far she's decided she wants to each time I've
"suggested" it.  As I say, the process involves seduction and
negotiation (she likes foot rubs, which I provide when asked). I like to
put sexy outfits (or none) when we exercise together and pose her and
photograph her in extreme and/or revealing poses. She praises my being
supportive and attentive about her exercising for helping her to be in
such good shape (at 75+ she does white water rafting and ocean rowing).
      We have a great many common intellectual interests and enjoy
reading books out loud to each other. For years the children complained
of the frequency with which second derivatives kept cropping up in
discussions at breakfast. Many an evening will find us naked together in
bed with several reference books open, engaging in serious theological
discussion and sexplay ("May I please have a spanking now, Master?")
simultaneously.
      I feel I have the world's most exquisite submissive, and also get
to satisfy quite a few of my other stray fantasies; she gets all the
attention she wants and obviously loves feeling that she can be an
irresistible sexual attraction to a man 20 years younger.
      We don't easily fit in any of the standard 'categories' of wiitwd.
(I sometimes say that our main unifying fetish is Church History and
Comparative Theology, but that is clearly an oversimplification).
      As usual, I've departed a long way from the question. Hope it was
helpful.
   Thorney

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